Recently I've been going through quite a Paul McCartney phase. Some might even say that is ill advised. I came late to The Beatles 'proper', having been initiated by my friend Steven when I was fourteen or fifteen but with the result of only liking the occasional track, which in most cases were the Lennon tracks or the Harrison tracks, generally finding Paul's music saccharine, and dare I say boring.
The songs which featured on this list of Beatles dislikes were the typical moon/spoon stuff along with 'Hey Jude', 'Let It Be', 'Eleanor Rigby', and 'Yesterday' and so on. The only time I'd ever been taken aback by the song Yesterday, was out of context in a Mantovani type string arranged segment which featured in the film Once Upon A Time In America in between Ennio Morricone's beautiful theme score, other than that I couldn't bear to hear it.
The songs I gravitated towards back then were the more mystical dreamlike Lennon songs like 'Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds', 'Julia', 'Across the Universe' or the sincere every-note-counts of Harrison's 'Something' or 'Here Comes The Sun'. As pieces of music and sentiments I found them somehow more endearing, more enduring and more heartfelt and soulful than I did of the McCartney material, one exception being oddly, 'I Will' (which as saccharine as a choice it may be) was something I heard first covered (even more saccharine) by Art Garfunkel!
Now, on the flip side one could equally say that Lennon's mystical dreamlike songs were as indulgent as McCartney's were bland.
Other than that most of my musical obsession was taken up for a good few years by Bob Dylan and Paul Simon, at least until I turned 21 and was knocked out of the addiction and flung fully into the world of the world of music 'outside' of the Bob Dylan cradle thanks to a broken heart and a new set of mates with more diverse tastes in music.
Anyway, several years ago, after having had a quite strident, 'not interested' opinion on the Beatles aside from the odd track, I began to take them more seriously.
I think the thing that often turns people off The Beatles is the hype surrounding them and the esteem with which they are held, so that even before you've heard their music you know who they are and everyone thinks they're great. The inner contrarian/cynic in me was immediately turned off and decided to avoid these horrific Beatles at all costs.
At some point I got to see A Hard Day’s Night, and began to realise that behind these - what I thought of as - throwaway nursery rhyme rock n' roll songs, or songs you find in a 'Complete Keyboard Player' book in the homes of middle class parents, or a school music teachers idea of 'good' music, were these really satirical, ironic and hilarious figures who were not the sanitised bollocks I'd always believed them to be.
I distinctly remember as a young teenager leafing through my granddad Gibb's 'teach yourself how to play keyboard' to find among 'When The Saints Go Marching In', 'Hey Jude' and 'Let It Be' and deciding from then that everything that was wrong with the world, with music and with people must have something to do with those fucking abhorrent songs and those fucking 'Complete Keyboard Player' books. To this day I still hate 'When the Saints Go Marching In', 'Michael Row the Boat Ashore' and hope they along with every fucking moron who has ever played those songs on a keyboard marches into a fiery furnace of misery.
Anyways, getting back to my love for the Beatles. Seeing A Hard Day’s Night opened my eyes. These chaps were funny and talented and swept up in a new kind of entertainment world which they would serve as future role models. They hadn't had their spirits kicked out of them, the way these despicable Reality-TV-talent-shows now currently murder kids' spontaneity and sense of instinct and when you watched them performing songs from the album the movie takes its name, you realise how effortless and brilliant those melodies were, which can only have come from a mixture of the Rhythm & Blues they'd heard from vinyl shipped in from the states down on the Albert Docks when they were still tear-away teddy boys in Liverpool to the 'granny music' John accurately described as Paul's 'influence' from his father.
When you combine those two elements, and John, Paul, George and Ringo's equal love for Rock n' Roll and Country Music, you have what at that point was the future synthesis and model for modern popular music obviously...
Now getting to McCartney. I can leave Lennon aside, as I had always preferred his music, always thought of it as more emotional, visceral, subversive and sincere.
My entry to McCartney's music was actually not via his Beatles output initially (I came to appreciate that again later), but his first - DIY - album McCartney and the second one Ram, which as far as I'm concerned are both brilliant. As far as DIY, McCartney set a standard, otherwise established as far as I can tell with Skip Spence's 1969 work Oar.
The linchpin without a doubt with McCartney was the song Junk, that beautiful nostalgic recollections of a junk shop where signs in the shop window wonder why. He gave the artefacts a humanity and married it with a beautiful sorrowful melody, and the fact that unlike some of his earlier work, it wasn't laden with gooey schlocky lushness, but was sparse, spare, a bit rough around the edges made it beautiful. Followed by 'Every Night', 'Oo You', 'Man We Was Lonely' and 'Teddy Boy' (a failed Beatles song Lennon hated, and which in another context I'd probably hate too). Again, taking the contrarian stance the typically honoured 'Maybe I'm Amazed' leaves me cold. Its shit Paul, shit.
So McCartney led me to Ram and the amazing 'Uncle Albert' et al, but most importantly to revisionism of his work with The Beatles and so began my appreciation of the man's music both as a writer and crucially as an arranger. You only have to hear his bass contributions to the other Beatles' work to see how he could lift a song up at the right places. Although Lennon was good at dropping a 'Spaniard' in the works with his wit and cynicism, his musical forms were far less advanced than Paul's, but at times they were equally spellbinding. 'Happiness Is a Warm Gun' is ample evidence of how great Lennon could be.
From there I went back to 'Penny Lane' and admitted to myself that I no longer hated it, I loved its nod to the Beach Boys. Then I decided I could stomach Paul's ode to the mysterious Eleanor (Rigby). Having previously thought it boring and farty to make up songs about imaginary people, their imaginary lives (although much evidence suggests she was real) and their lonely existence. Now I think of it as song craft, and admirable to a point. But further back you need only look at a song like Things We've Said Today, which has such a fantastic feel and melodically is gorgeous, never mind the obvious cliché choices people always comment on like 'Here, There and Everywhere', which is also a tremendous song.
I even came to almost like 'The Long And Winding Road' (mainly the piano playing), which had long been a song I had hated for its seemingly pointless sentiments leading to the irritating verse ending chords which cry out that 'daa daa, daa daa, daa'. McCartney certainly knows how to verge on elevator music and Lennon could bring him back from this abyss, but equally McCartney could save John from his indulgence of the self in song. Alas we have Ian Macdonald's book Revolution in the Head, so I may as well say no more on any of this.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that although McCartney irritates me like the incessant drip in the bucket from a leaky ceiling, sometimes I think 'damn, that's a good fucking song'.
Aside from the first two records and obviously avoiding the utterly yuckifying Broad Street, I have steered clear of most of McCartney's other solo work and always kept a 'file for later' policy on 'getting into' more of his stuff. But in referring to the previous paragraph, sometimes I'm nicely surprised by a new song I had not heard before. Two examples of this were hearing 'Jenny Wren', from Chaos and Creation.. and 'Calico Skies'.
The guitar arrangement of the former song is in the classic Macca-Blackbird vein, but it's pretty, prettier than 'Blackbird', and a better song to boot (controversial?). The lyrics are pretty straightforward, but something about the song suggests it was an inspiration song, the guitar piece particularly. Although lyrically it could never match it, it somehow reminds me of how Dylan must have written 'Dark Eyes':
Like so many girls, Jenny Wren could sing
But a broken heart, took her song away
Like the other girls, Jenny Wren took wing
She could see the world, and its foolish ways
She saw poverty, breaking up her home
Wounded warriors, took her song away
For the guitar players out there, the song is down-tuned a tone and the change from Am to Cm is a beast, as is the standard picking change from Am to G to F on the 'breaking up her home' part.
Equally 'Calico Skies' had a similar effect on me. Again, like much of Macca's output the song could verge on the cheese-factor, specifically a video performance of it with him playing it by a crackling fire in a forest with his tracksuit bottoms on. Plonker. I've picked a live version to show below, because I enjoy the strings on it, more than the video footage of Paul playing it by a smoking fire! Although even the strings are slightly cheesy. Either way, great song Paul!
Interestingly, both songs, both just over two minutes in length and both seemingly inspiration songs which feel like they were written relatively quickly share a similiar sentiment about a cruel world outside, with Calico Skies referencing 'crazy soldiers' and 'weapons of war', and Jenny Wren, 'wounded warriors' and 'the broken world' and its 'foolish ways'.
Of recent there seems to be either a cunning PR campaign to revitalise his career or a general revisionism growing (or probably both) around McCartney's cultural role/impact in terms of an avant-garde musician with his interest in electronic music and his apparent love of early experimental music/music-concrete. I had been one who thought of this revisionism in the various music magazines, as rather annoying cynical ploys to reinforce his influence as the Beatles, sell more records and compete with Yoko Ono's genius John Lennon branding.
Having gone through my own revisionism of his work, it seems that in the mainstream at least there is no need to reinforce his credentials, as apart from the young muppets on Twitter asking 'Who the F&*% is Paul McCartney?' after his recent Grammy outing, most know who he is and certainly out of the mainstream enough people appreciate the best of his work. Yet even where I think the arguments (tied in with the 'Carnival of Light' debate) for this 'McCartney as the experimenting Beatle' are weak, there is some importance in this revisionism in that it reminds people that amongst the schlock and the clangers, there are some real diamonds that should be heard.
Having already expressed my hatred of 'The Complete Keyboard Player' manuals and the like I will step back slightly from that. One thing I think crucial about McCartney is how influential a piano player he is. Something that I haven't seen mentioned much. You can pretty much guarantee that students of music theory will have at some point learnt what I had viewed as those atrociously bland and boring songs 'Hey Jude' and 'Let It Be' at music lessons and that essentially the style in which they played those songs came directly from Paul McCartney’s own fingering technique.
Paul McCartney, a self-taught - dare I say - raw and 'natural' musician (whose musical scope and melodic ear is pretty astonishing) who in fact has probably influenced a million student piano players and future classically trained musicians and songwriters perhaps even unconsciously in their playing of piano and in their composition. There are positives and negatives to this obviously, on the negative someone boring like Jamie Cullum or even Chris Martin when that silly prat gets anywhere near a piano.
Even more crucially, McCartney is not hailed as a great piano player, yet most of the kids who learn piano will have within their playing style, especially if they follow the educational playbooks, something of McCartney’s instilled within their own, that unmistakeable piano sound that you hear on 'Hey Jude', 'Let It Be' or even 'The Long and Winding Road' have been the basis for many kids to learn piano. Even back when I was at secondary school you'd hear the trickles of those songs flowing down from the music rooms as the teacher tried to teach the kids a 'modern' song instead of a Mozart or whatever else. That's probably why I always hated those songs, because i associated them with institutions and establishments and they seemed to fit so nicely into the worst elements of taught music because they were not idiosyncratic, but in a sense definitive, concise and easy examples of 'how to play'. His playing is almost a lesson in instruction for piano, basic chord patterns, roots and fifths and the switches between them and underneath deceivingly simple and catchy melodies. Look at any musician, who was generally tutored whether at school or privately and somewhere within their style is Paul McCartney and the traces of his Granny Music.
Equally, the same can be said of his guitar style specifically on 'Blackbird'. These two points are something I can't imagine (no pun intended) apply in the same way to John Lennon or Bob Dylan or any other songwriter, although a couple of Lennon's songs, particularly 'In My Life' which have something of the McCartney feel, also have that classic Lennon trope, shift from major to minor on the IV chord (e.g. C to Cminor in the key of G) which has found it's way into the popular song.
So, sorry Paul for not giving you credit where credit was due sooner. I still think you need a kick up the arse sometimes, and although your songs don't always move me soulfully or emotionally you're one hell of a song crafter and musician and an absolutely necessary tonic to people in the John Lennon camp, who can be as loathsomely indulgent as you can sometimes be loathsomely bland.
There is constant twittering about Bob Dylan and Plagiarism and I've often found myself on both sides of the argument, at first on the wrong side, until I come to my senses that is.
There is a link somewhere on the expectingrain.com forum for Classic Interviews Vol.3 which cover the periods 78 to 81. In one of the 1981 interviews, Dylan explicitly talks of how European and particularly UK audiences appreciate his material, specifically his older material because they are inately familiar with the Scottish/Irish/English Ballad form.
He then goes on to state openly that many of his early songs are taken from those ballads. He lists Masters of War, The Times They Are A' Changin, Girl From The North Country... Of this we all know already, and there are many more significant songs we could add to Dylan's list.
Clearly Dylan has always used the folk process as a way of creating new works of Art. I think if you're as good as Dylan is it's possible to do this legitimately and thoroughly. He has taken the process and moved into the realms of both the popular and the obscure songs in his work and of course into painting and writing non-fiction (or is it fiction?) in Chroincles Vol I. There is no question that Chronicles was a delicately researched project as Scott Warmuth knows. A book "meticulously fabricated, with one surface concealing another, from cover to cover".
I write songs myself but have never adopted Dylan's process consciously as such, however I'd imagine that if I did I would probably benefit as much as my work would because I would become inspired simply by being immersed in it. I would find something new and interesting to say from existing threads. "Sewing new dresses out of old cloth", as he said in Floater, which again was said by someone else in another context altogether.
Unconsciously of course anyone who is in the business of being creative will find they have been influenced, or because of a measured amount of experience, been transported to a new place with which to write and contemplate and will therefore in some way have borrowed inocculuously. In all cases this is growth. It only becomes plagiarism to me when the person commiting the plagiarism has no deeper knowledge of the area they're plagiarising, nor any true artistic intent. In other words sheer laziness and dishonesty. We can certainly vouch for Dylan's artistic intent, we merely need to look at his body of work.
Clearly his immersion in these materials and his exposure to many different things fed into this 'wellspring of creativity' he spoke of (60 Minuted interview in 2004) which created those unique songs that he says he wrote unconsciously, Mr Tambourine Man, Its Alright Ma, Gates of Eden, Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands and so on. Of course by 1967 or 68 he claims the lights went out and he had to learn 'consciously to do what I had done unconsciously', giving Blood on the Tracks as his first successful proclamation of this new process. (This very process Dylan embarks on is in some ways covered in my favourite Jean Luc Goddard film Le Mepris, which is a self-conscious film of layers concealing layers.)
So Dylan's education and sensitivity, which must have exploded when he arrived in NYC in 1961, and his use of other sources along the way is the main reason we have Bob Dylan. Without it, he's not there, he's gone to borrow from his lost unfinished Basement Tapes gem I'm Not There. In effect, its those little threads that make us all who we are, new dresses from old cloth, or atomically stardust. Plagiarised, if you like, from the universe.
I came relatively late to the great Richard Thompson, and was even later in discovering how great a band Fairport Convention were. I remember watching him play beautiful lyrical guitar flourishes alongside a sleepy whimsical Bob Dylan at the Guitar Legends show in Seville, Spains in 1991 or 92 on an old VHS my Dad had when I was a just bairn. I thought he looked something like a curious, subtle rather shy and retiring Viking, keeping the as-ever unpredictable Bob Dylan boat afloat as it were.
I think the first song of his I remember hearing might have been what I could only describe as a Celtic-rockabilly song, Turning of the Tide, somewhere in the depths of a moment, when and where I do not recall any longer. I remember thinking, wow that is one fucking fantastic guitar lick. Maybe I first heard it in a pub somewhere, because it always felt like a song playing at the end of the night in a pub in the Highlands, when everyone is too drunk to dance, except for the kids who are on holiday kicking up the glitter dust and party poppers. The song is much more than that though.
Later I saw him on TV doing two songs in tribute to Joni Mitchell, and his guitar playing to my unsophisticated ears seemed almost free of scale, key and modes. The guy was and is an unreal, sweet, wild, subtle and enigmatic guitar player, with a voice wrapped in wit-licked Celtic croon.
A friend of mine a few years back turned me onto 'The End of the Rainbow', one of the saddest, funniest, and darkest lullabies I've ever heard. 'I feel for you, you little horror' goes the song and from there it only gets sadder and funnier. After hearing an opening line like that you know you're dealing with a major talent who has a way with words and isn't afraid to lay it down honestly. It's probably the best opening line of anything I can think of other than Charles Bukowski's "it began as a mistake", at the beginning of Post Office. With that song I found myself listening to all of I Want To See The Bright Lights, the album recorded with his then wife Linda Thompson. This led me to 'The Calvary Cross', which I had actually heard first as covered by Tortoise and Will Oldham on 2006's The Brave and the Bold. (While I'm on the subject they also do a sublime cover of Elton John's Daniel.)
This man who seems to live and breathe a mystical England, where witches, wizards, men with bread knives "four feet wide" walk side by side with the modern world, is also an absolute killer love song writer. After 'Bright Lights..' I got hold of Rumor and Sigh, which contains among others the great '1952 Vincent Black Lightening' a love song to a motorcyle and 'I Misunderstood', also covered unbelievably and rather exquisitely by Dinosaur Jnr.
Another album Sweet Warrior, features a tune called 'Sunset Song' , which when I first heard it, live at a gig in Durham a couple of years ago, blew my mind. The guitar accompaniment is elastic, medieval and spellbinding, stretches around the lyrics bouncing back and forth and drawing you into another place altogether. Again it's not just musicianship or craft with Richard Thompson, his lyrics are some of the best you'll hear. I love the way he sings, "the band's down on the jetty, If you cup your ear", and I think one of the great lyrics about selflessness and desperation in what I can only interpret as unrequited love is encapsulated in the lines:
"You said, if I hold my breath, dive down deep enough I might grow fins. Seems to me I've held my breath, held my breath to please you ever since."Stunning.
One of the things that strikes you about Richard Thompson is his effortless musical ability. His sense of timing and phrase as a guitar player, the tricks he can roll out would leave most guitarists in the dust. His advantage is the folk and modal traces he interjects with elements of jazz, rock 'n' roll and even elements of punk. Nobody sounds like him and in many ways I've often thought Mark Knopfler's melodic stratocaster picking style and sound might be influenced in some way by RT. He is without question one of the great guitar players. Al Kooper in a 1994 interview with my good friend, songwriter Peter Stone Brown (full interview here) described Thompson as a "giant if people could get used to his voice". Thompson's voice is in fact one of his great assets. He is an amazing singer.
Kooper on Thompson:
"He's a great fucking guitar player...play a long fucking guitar solo and kill me because you're the best guitar player walking the fucking earth... I can get my fix when I go see him live. Because he's the greatest fucking guitar player, he shreds. I'm like a groupie. Since Hendrix, he's the guy for me. He does things that no one else can do. And he's got a brilliant fucking mind musically speaking. He just kills me. It's right up my alley. I love it."Thanks for the music RT!
See www.richardthompson-music.com
Alongside Dylan there are not many contemporaries who still stand up even now as a live performer or songwriter. I know some might dispute that, but I can tell you now, Dylan is still a formidable force when you see him perform. Leonard Cohen's initial 2008 concerts were a revelation for those who saw them, but again every night is a reproduction of the same stage patter and the endless band introductions and same arrangements without any real variation. As everyone probably knows Paul Mccarteney delivers a slick set with his rather bland yet sophisticated session players, but it's all essentially tribute.
Then there is Van Morrison, who manages to deliver astoundingly passionate invigorating performances of his material.There is ample evidence of this on youtube, even if Van's management love to remove these videos frequently and even though on the later performances Van is prone to slip into what less obsessive fans might see as a scat-sing-mumbling.
A testament to his brilliance as a live performer can be witnessed in the emotional rendition of Celtic New Year as performed on Later with Jools Holland in 2005. The performance complete with string section is deeply moving and is a performance I return to. See below for the video.
As a tribute to Van, who the press have been hounding a lot recently, I figured I should put up some of his best performances on youtube, starting first with a very rare video of him performing - during his Veedon Fleece period - Dylan's Just Like A Woman, at the Winterland, San Francisco, February 2nd 1974, which is sublime aside from the homophobic utterence of "this queer in here" during the bridge..
Van's performance in Montreux 1980 contains some of his best captured performances. Unfortunately not all of it is online anymore. But here is an absolutely superb rendition of Wavelength:
Here is a t.t.t.t.tongue-tied stutteringly grand version of Cypress Avenue from the Filmore, 1970:
My person favourite however, for whatever inexplicable reason is later-period Van performing Celtic New Year in 2005. Something about the build up in the performance, when he gets to the last 'come back home my dear' to his hum and riff guitar parts at the close of the song make it special and raises a shy tear.
And obviously, we can't leave it without Van's 'electric light' moment during the Last Waltz:
Here's to Van Morrison! Can't wait to see you play live this year you old grumpus.
My favourite album of Van Morrison's without a doubt is Veedon Fleece:
If you like your John Fahey's, your Dave Van Ronk's and your Leo Koettke's and even further down the line you like your Derek Bailey's, Jim O'Rourkes' and David Grubbs', then you should listen to this guy - Stefan Grossman.
Grossman plays superb 'fingerstyle' guitar and spent the weekends of his youth with gospel singer/guitarist Rev. Gary Davis learning guitar. The man is a historian of great guitar music and an indexing point for all of the acoustic guitar greats, as well as a truly great talent in his own right.
In the video below he also wears a fantastic beard:
Grossman got to play and study under other seminal figures, Son House, Mississippi John Hurt, Skip James, and Mississippi Fred McDowell and in the sixties formed the Even Dozen Jug Band, of which several members went on to forge successful careers of their own, where Grossman remained relatively outside of the limelight. Although, he has the privilege of his own Martin Custom Edition guitar, the HJ-38 Stefan Grossman Custom Signature Edition and according to his Wikipedia entry is a market leader in instrument instruction. He resumed touring in 2006 and frequently visits the UK which is good news for me, as I will without a doubt attend one of his guitar workshops.
Here he is performing the 'Assassination of John Fahey':
Thanks to the online radio Pandora, (which I use daily) my listening tastes can be channelled through a particular style or artist, in this case Jim O' Rourke, leading me off into a world of good music that I may be hearing for the first time. Because of Pandora, I got to hear this guy for the first time and found myself in a familiar and comfortable world of guitar rags and guitar drones both traditional and experimental.
Although some may mourn the death in some cases - depending on geography - of hearing this music live, or swapping vinyls and tapes with avid collectors. This process is still occurring, if even on another level. Sites like Pandora or Spotify, although they don't allow us the opportunity to hold the album in our hands and run our fingers over the artwork or the vinyl, they do give us a window into a world, which was once governed by who you knew and where you lived at a certain point in history.
Playing Mississippi Blues in 1981 (great little back story as well):
Playing 'God Moves on The Water' (1972):
Access to this material at one time may have taken a music listener years to achieve and depend on a friend of a friend to provide a record and after much searching result in nights of bliss in front of their record player smoking pot reading the album sleeves. In my case as clinical as it may be, drinking coffee in the house on an afternoon with my laptop humming low I stumble upon Stefan Grossman. The hunt is not as majestic for the music, and beauty and yearning of the search may have died, but the beauty of the music is immediate and most importantly available.
Some who read this may already be aware of Stefan Grossman, and have discovered him in other ways perhaps more interesting, but the important point is discoveries are still personal, whether online, or in the real world.
Recommended link - http://www.guitarvideos.com/
Recommend listening - Yazoo Basin Boogie (album)
Others will far more knowledge than I could probably expand on this in the comments section...
I originally posted this compilation of comments on Bob Dylan made by Joni Mitchell way back in October of 2002 on the legendary 'rec.music.dylan' newsgroup. The reason I originally put this together, was because at the time both Joni and Bob were the two main songwriters I listened to most. I have now updated it with more recent comments by Joni.
LA Times, April 2010
"Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I."
Joni in the past has always been a defender of Dylan and that is something to keep in mind with regard to her last published comments on him.
March 1997 Grammy Interview
Joni on Sincerity in songs:
"Well, I do hear it in Bob, absolutely, Bob can connect up to his stuff really sincerely. In that way he's a great singer. And then he puts his jive in where it belongs. Bob's a great singer."
Joni on Songwriting Styles:
"Yes. I did make a conscious lyrical shift to "you," which is a device that Dylan used for a lot of his autobiographical stuff, I suspect. That has a certain amount of self-protection built into it."
"Yes. I tried with Dylan's device to switch from "I" to "you" on Hissing of Summer Lawns but people didn't like it. In my case, the device failed because people said suddenly, "why are you pointing at us?" In other words, with the "I" device - which wasn't a device, it was just a way I wrote - when I said "I" the listeners could see themselves in it if they wanted to but they could always say "it's her" because of the "I"."
"It's safer for the listener. I have a friend who was raised on my music and I've been trying to get him into Dylan. But he doesn't like Dylan because he says Dylan is preaching at him and that's the "you" device. "
About God in songwriting:
"I just know that this is a very mysterious place we're in, and I hardly ever use the word God. As a matter of fact I asked Dylan one time, "what do you mean by 'God,' 'cause if you read the Bible, I can't tell God from the devil half the time! They seem to me to act very similarly." And Dylan said, "Well, it's just a word that people use." I said, "yeah, but when you use it, what do you mean?" And he never answered me." "Prior to all of it. Then, a couple of years later, when he went through his Christian period prior to his Judaic return, he came up to me and said, "remember that time you asked me about God and the devil? Well I'll tell you now," And he launched into this fundamentalist crap, and I said "Bobby, be careful. All of that was written by poets like us; but this interpretation of yours seems a little brainwashed." "Poets like us..." he said. He kind of snickered at that. "
Rolling Stone May 30, 1991
Interviewer: How big an influence was Dylan on you?
I wrote poetry, and I always wanted to make music. But I never put the two things together. Just a simple thing like being a singer-songwriter - that was a new idea. It used to take three people to do that job. And when I heard "Positively Fourth Street," I realized that this was a whole new ballgame; now you could make your songs literature. The potential for the song had never occurred to me - I loved "Tutti-Frutti," you know. But it occurred to Dylan. At first I thought he was a copycat of Woody Guthrie. For a while his originality didn't come out. But when it hit, boy, oh, boy. I said, "Oh, God, look at this." And I began to write. So Dylan sparked me.
Interviewer: Dylan made a pretty interesting comment regarding you a few years ago.
Oh, I remember. He was talking about how he didn't like seeing women onstage, how he hates to see them up these whoring themselves. So he was asked, "Well, what about Joni Mitchell?" And he says something like "She's not really a woman. Joni's kind of like a man." [laughs] The thing is, I came into the business quite feminine. But nobody has had so many battles to wage as me. I had to stand up for my own artistic rights. And it's probably good for my art ultimately. I remember early in my career somebody wrote that my work was "effeminate," which I thought was pretty odd. So over the years I think I've gotten more androgynous - and maybe become an honorary male, according to Bobby. But he's born on the twenty-fourth of May. My mother, Queen Victoria and Bobby were all born on that date. I always think that birth date is the day of the extreme moralist.
Interviewer: So you weren't offended?
In a way he's right. Music has become burlesque over the last few years - video's done that. Every generation has to be more shocking than the last. But at a certain point you've got to reel it in because decadence ultimately isn't that hip. Our country is going down the tubes from it. It's rotten to the core. And I think women can be more than decorative. I mean, it's the same old thing actresses have been saying all along, that these are no good roles for women. Well, there are women creating their own roles, but they're creating such shallow roles I wonder why.
Interviewer: Is the audience any different?
People knew what a song was back then. Which they don't know anymore. Dylan said to me: "I don't know. I used to know what a song is but I don't know anymore." And part of that gets beaten out of you, because we make this music and we put it out and the critics have gotten into the scheme of, like reducing Wild Things Run Fast to I Love Larry songs.
Interviewer: What do you think motivates someone like Dylan spend year after year on the road?
Well, he'd rather play music probably than do anything else. He doesn't relate well to people. He probably feels most himself out there.
Progressive Quarterback March 2000:
"I worked up "Comes Love" and sang it in the second leg of my tour last year with Bob Dylan. Bobby came to the room and said, "That new voice, that new voice, where'd you get that new voice? I like that new voice."
Festival Press Conference Edmonton Folk Festival, August 5, 1994
Re: the Nara Japan Concert :
"It was an interesting braiding of cultures, Bobby [Dylan] played and it was a miracle that he held to his structures. I thought he was excellent. It was hard stretching his forms, he has his own time."
Intervieiwer: What poets have influenced you? :
"It was very instrumental in the shaping of me as a poet. Bob Dylan's "Positively 4th Street" showed me that the American pop song has finally grown up. "You've got a lot of nerve to say you are my friend ..."
(Rolling Thunder Revue, 1975.)
LA Times Feb 1991
""Well, I love Bob," she says. "And I'm always pulling for him, defending him. I must admit I was mad at Bruce (Springsteen) initially because everyone was calling him the 'New Dylan' even though it wasn't even his fault. But there is no new Dylan. There never will be. Bob is still capable of being inspired at any moment and it was a shame to see some of his records not being appreciated enough."
Vox April 1991
"It offended me when they would call Donovan the new Bob Dylan," she rages, fidgeting on the edge of her chair and squirting off malevolent jets of smoke. "Think about it. Really, it's absurd! Who in their right mind could compare that kind of talent to Bobby's?"
Mojo Dec 1994
Interviewer: Listening to Free Man in Paris again made me think of Dylan saying that you weren't really a woman.
Yeah, they asked him about women in the business and he said, "Oh, they all tart themselves up". And the interviewer said, "Even Joni Mitchell?" And he said, "I love Joni Mitchell, but she's"...how did he put it?..."kinda like a man", or something. It was a backhanded compliment, I think, because I'm probably one of Bobby's best pace runners... you know what I mean, as a poet? There aren't that many good writers. There are a lot that are touted as good, but they're not literature, they're just pretty good for a songwriter.
Interviewer: What was it like singing with Dylan at the Great Music Experience in Japan?
Oh, he's such a little brat, you know. He really is. He's never been very complimentary to my face - most of the boys haven't. But he loved Sex Kills, and was very effusive about it. Anyway, we played three concerts, and they kept shifting my position on the mics and which verses of the songs I was going to sing. On the third night they stuck Bob at the mic with me, and that's the one that went out on tape. And if you look closely at it, you can see the little brat, he's up in my face - and he never brushes his teeth, so his breath was like...right in my face - and he's mouthing the words at me like a prompter, and he's pushing me off the mic. It's like he's basically dipping my pigtail in ink. The press picked up on it and said, "Bobby Smiles!" Yeah sure, because he was having a go at me out there.
Rolling Stone, July 26, 1979
Interviewer: When did you first meet Bob Dylan?
The first official meeting was the Johnny Cash Show in 1969. We played that together. Afterward Johnny had a party at his house. So we met briefly there.
Over the years there were a series of brief encounters. Tests. Little art games. I always had an affection for him. At one point we were at a concert-whose concert was that? {shrugs} How soon we forget. Anyway, we're backstage at this concert. Bobby and {Dylan's friend} Louie Kemp were holding up the wall. I went over there and opened up the conversation with painting. I knew he was discovering painting. At that point I had an idea for a canvas that I wanted to do. I'd just come from New Mexico, and the color of the land there was still very much with me. I'd seen color combinations that had never occurred to me before. Lavender and wheat, like old-fashioned licorice, you know, when you bite into it and there's this peculiar, rich green and brown color? The soil was like that, and the foliage coming out of it was vivid in the context of this color of earth. Anyway, I was describing something like that, really getting carried away with all of the colors. And Bobby says to me {an inspired imitation}: "When you paint, do you use white?" And I said, "Of course." He said, "'Cause if you don't use white, your paint gets muddy." I thought, "Aha, the boy's been taking art lessons."
The next time we had a brief conversation was when Paul McCartney had a party on the Queen Mary, and everybody left the table and Bobby and I were sitting there. After a long silence he said, "If you were gonna paint this room, what would you paint?" I said, "Well, let me think. I'd paint the mirrored ball spinning, I'd paint the women in the washroom, the band...." Later all the stuff came back to me as part of a dream that became the song "Paprika Plains." I said, "What would you paint?" He said, "I'd paint this coffee cup." Later, he wrote "One More Cup of Coffee."
Interviewer: What does this do to your confidence when Bob Dylan falls asleep in the middle of your album?
Let me see, there was Louie Kemp and a girlfriend of his and David Geffen {then president of Elektra/Asylum Records} and Dylan. There was all this fussing over Bobby's project, 'cause he was new to the label, and Court and Spark, which was a big breakthrough for me, was being entirely and almost rudely dismissed. Geffen's excuse was, since I was living in a room in his house at the time, that he had heard it through all of its stages, and it was no longer any surprise to him. Dylan played his album {Planet Waves}, and everybody went, "Oh, wow." I played mine, and everybody talked and Bobby fell asleep. {Laughs} I said, "Wait a minute, you guys, this is some different kind of music for me, check it out." I knew it was good. I think Bobby was just being cute {laughs}.
Mojo Aug 98
Interviewer: Actually the Dylan album, I think. But I wondered if you were as sensitive as the Yeats estate might be when someone was altering your own work.
Oh, no, no. And I love Bobby. I think Bobby thinks of himself as not friendly. I think he just thinks of himself that way. But I'm very fond of him, and over the years we've had a lot of encounters, and most of the discussion has been about painting, actually. No, he can do whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned (laughs). He's one of those people like Miles, you know! Even if he wasn't up to it that night - or I saw a performance where he just kinda cruised - whatever it was, I would always be curious about the next. Because he's kind of untouchable in a lot of ways.
And I love his writing - you know, not all of it. And I was a detractor in the beginning. In the beginning I thought he was a Woody Guthrie copycat. I never liked copycats, and I just found out why from these horoscope books that just came out. I'm born the Day of the Discoverer in the Week of Depth. really love innovators. I love the first guy to put the flag at the North Pole; the guy that went there second doesn't interest me a lot of times. Although some could say that Wayne Shorter is the guy who got there second, but he took it somewhere. So Dylan went to Woody, and you have to build off of something. Not everybody comes out of the blue as a genuine muse - a real cosmic muse. It used to be that's what music was - but now it's formulated. And, especially, it's become a producers' art, who's an interior decorator basically.
Interviewer: Does Dylan know that you were initially a detractor?
Oh, I don't know if he knows that or not, but you know, the thing that turned me around was Positively 4th Street. It stopped me in my tracks, and I went, Oh my God - that's just great. We can write about anything now. Because up 'til then, I was writing songs. And I wrote poetry in the closet because I didn't like it. I wrote it, I just rhymed, haha. Rhyming Joan, I guess. But I didn't care to show it to anybody, or I did it in school on assignment because I had to. And I was praised for it, but I just figured I got away with it. And songs I loved, stories I loved - I always loved stories from the moment I could understand English. Poetry was kind of like shelling sunflower seeds with your fingers - it just was too much work for too little return, a lot of times. I like things more plainspeak.
The Bob, Joni & Van tour at MSG
I think we all did kick each other up. Bobby - I don't want to be indiscreet to Bobby, but it's beautiful what he said. I don't want to be a tattletale here.
So anyway he greeted me after the show in Vancouver, he went on last that night, and it was a difficult show for me because I'm not used to playing big sports arenas, and there was a lot of milling, a lot of going for beer, and a lot of talking really loud through all of the shows. It seemed to be that that crowd had come for the beer and the event itself - not to listen, just to be at it, you know! And I thought that was a shame. And you have three people that are really listened-to artists, it's OK if there's no lyrical text or something, but I assumed that this was gonna be a writers' tour, so I picked a set for Bobby. And I think he did for me, too - because he put in one of the best line-ups of songs that I've seen him do for a long time. All of that you can quote me on that.
But when he came off-stage, he was there to greet me, and it takes a moment to kind of recover - and I wasn't sure if it was a good experience. I thought we played well in spite of it, but that we weren't properly listened to. It was the first one, you know. Then I realised it was just the nature of the crowd. But Bobby was standing and he was very excited, and he said, (affecting Dylan's voice) "Oh those chords, those chords - you've got to show me some of those chords. I love those chords that you play. We're gonna sound like an old hillbilly band when we go on." I don't know whether that's indiscreet or not - what do you think! - I'm so sensitive to it. I said, Bobby you don't want to learn these chords. First of all you have to learn tunings, and tunings are a pain in the butt. And you won't have nearly the fun that you're having now with your music.
Bobby and I played in Tokyo a few years back, three or four I guess, and he called me up just before we went over and he said, "I forgot how to sing - but I remember now, I remember now. The trouble is they want me to do all those Bob Dylan songs - and they're so heavy." And that's exactly what I feel about my material
Interviewer: I had a difficult time trying to describe that when reviewing your show; I compared the speak-singing style to later Lou Reed...
It's the same thing that Bob does. The poet takes over. Maybe I guess Lou Reed, although I'm not as familiar with his material as Bob's. The point in the performance is to make the words come alive. Like Ella Fitzgerald is a beautiful singer, she has perfect pitch and perfect time, but she doesn't illuminate the words - she just sings through them. "S'wonderful, s'marvellous" - that's the way it's written, she sings through it. Whereas Billie Holiday makes you hear the content and the intent of every word that she sings - even at the expense of her pitch or tone. So of the two, Billie is the one that touches me the deepest, although I admire perfect pitch end perfect time. Dylan does that. He never reads the same thing the same two days in a row - and as a result, you can almost see his state of mind in the reading. And I respect that, I think that's emotional honesty, and when you have this complex creature, the singer-songwriter...




